Croton Village Board Work Session Meeting Transcript

Great, I can hear you. Great, thank you.

So just to give a quick background on this project before I hand it over to John. So Kaplan's Pond is about a water body. It's a water body of about an acre in size. [Editor's note: Kaplan's Pond is 10000 square meters which is approximately 2.5 acres. Duck Pond is half the size of Kaplan's Pond at 5000 square meters or 1.25 acres] that's located at the intersection of Lounsbury Road and Giglio Court. The village acquired the pond in 1991 and has owned it since that time.

Since about 1994, we've been receiving complaints about the algae and just the general health of the pond. And so there have been efforts in the past to try to address this, most notably in board in 2008 looked at chemically treating the pond and ultimately did not decide to go that route due to concerns on that effect. And we have done some invasive species removal there with phragmites and knotweed that was approved by the board about 10 years ago.

And in 2022, I started having dialogue with neighbors (um, er) a neighbor, in the area. And based on those conversations, we thought it might be a good idea to implement the aeration system, similar to what we have at Duck Pond at Kaplan, Kaplan's Pond to improve the health of the pond and the ecosystem in the area. And funding for this project was included in the 2024-2025 budget. And we started working on it in late spring. And that's basically where we are today.

So I'm going to ask John here from Lake Sabres to just kind of run through the system, explain the benefits of the system, how it can, you know, help the ecosystem and the health of the pond and, you know, answer any questions that the board may have. Great.

OK, so the first, first and foremost. No water body can be healthy without adequate levels of dissolved oxygen, and Kaplan's pond shows all the signs of a lake that of a pond that for a large portion of the spring and summer season is struggling for dissolved oxygen levels, and the signs of that are the accumulating muck on the bottom, the excess growth of weeds and algae at the surface.

And so it it is a, you know, aeration is a logical first step in trying to improve or and sometimes the only step, but sometimes not, is a logical step in trying to improve the health of a lake or or pond over time by restoring does all doctrine levels, not just into the water. but to the very bottom of the pond where that muck layer is accumulating.

And by doing so, you set up the conditions for aerobic biological breakdown of the fertilizers and organic material that is in that lake bottom muck that is essentially what is feeding the weeds and algae. So we're trying to restore a water body by cleaning it from the bottom up. And specifically cleaning the nutrient base and fertilizer base that is feeding everything that is overgrowing in the pond from a weed and algae perspective.

John, thanks very much.

Just a just a couple of quick questions and you you talked I think very, very helpful in your comments on the the threat to the pond itself, you know from lack of oxygen is in general would you say there's a there's in addition to that a public health threat for having essentially an unhealthy pond that that that is within a neighborhood.

There is mostly the biggest threat is from if if harmful blue-green algae develops periodically in the in the pond. If it gets bad enough, that can cause you know that those the toxins that that algae produces can aerosolize and impact breathing. You know, people can get headaches or breathing issues if they're walking around the pond during a harmful algal bloom event.

I know I haven't spent, I mean a lot of what you have. For much of the season in that pond, I believe is filamentous algae or surface string algae. That is more of a visual and property value nuisance than it is a human health issue.

However, in a pond that is low of oxygen, you'll also have potentially pathogenic anaerobic bacteria forming, which, since that's not a swimming pond, isn't a huge risk to human. But you could, you know, if you have dogs or pets that get in contact with that water, they can get sick from the E coli or fecal coliform bacterias that can develop in an anaerobic environment.

So I think it is very safe to say, and it's actually very factual to say that a pond with with no oxygen at the bottom and lots of algae and weed growth at the top is not significantly different than an open septic tank.

Appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for that. Just one more question. I know my colleagues will have them as well, but could you just, as much as you can, paint a picture for us of what it would be like if if the aeration system is is going on a regular basis or for the duration that it needs? How long would it need to be done? What's the noise factor?

What's the how how much does? I hate to use the word disturbed, but it's been it's been used in in many ways. How much of daily tranquility even is is disturbed by by this and how does this how does this compare maybe to some other work that you've done in the region?

The system that we're proposing even though we're. We're actually utilizing a a more commercial size, more powerful compressor than we have at at Duck Pond, 'cause this pond is two to three times, maybe four times the size. It's a different compressor technology. So relatively speaking, it's actually quieter than the smaller units that are at Duck Pond currently.

It will be enclosed in a steel structure with insulating foam lining the entirety of the inside of that structure to reduce sound. There is an exhaust from that unit that I believe on this one will exhaust out the bottom, but I think it is skewed to one side. So we would, you know, we're depending on where the exhaust is, we would. We would face that exhaust toward the pond and away from the road because it's it's a small, it's it's a tiny bit louder on that side and we would push that little bit louder sound toward the vegetation that's at the shore of the pond and toward the pond itself. So that you know it's it's it's muffled by the vegetation.

So bottom line on the sound from this unit. It is roughly equivalent to a few year old dishwasher running in your kitchen from a similar distance from 1015 feet away. It'll be about that level of noise. It's quieter than a house air conditioner, you know, a central AC unit. But it does run 24/7 when it's on. So unlike an AC unit that kicks on and off, it will be running 24/7 for the season from about April, around April 1st through the end of October or sometimes into November, depending on weather and conditions. Thank you, John. Appreciate it.

I'll turn it over to my colleagues.

John, thank you very much. I'm just curious, do you have a decibel reading of what that noise would be?

Roughly every system is a little different because the enclosures are a little different, the the the and and the settings are different, but we would put, we would expect this unit to be operating in that area. Just above ambient, somewhere between 50 and 52 decibels Max from 10 to 15 feet. And my guess is ambient in that area with traffic and just general suburban ambient noise is is probably in that 48 to 52 range.

Now that sound is very subjective, so it's not like you won't hear this. Because the decibel reading says it's 48, but it will not be appreciably louder if you turned it off and held a meter through most of the time of the day. At the same time, your decibel meter would not read significantly differently from 15 feet away with an on or off has been our experience. Thank you.

And can you just talk about the health of the? pond in terms of the wildlife that lives in the pond? Is the aeration going to help with the turtles and the fish and the various animals that are in the pond?

Well, at the at the risk of being glib, I wish my customers were turtle that paid me were turtles, fish, bugs, frogs, because the one absolute guarantee that I can provide with aeration is that everything that is desirable living in the pond will benefit from aeration.

Ponds need to breathe to be healthy. All of the positive life that we want in the pond, beneficial insects, zooplankton, frogs, turtles, birds that congregate around the pond. They all benefit from an oxygenated environment, one, because many of them need that oxygen to thrive, and two, because by putting oxygen into the system we are going to stimulate the aquatic food chain significantly. So there's much more food available for all the kinds of creatures that wanna live near or in a pond. So. More minnows for turtles, more fish for turtles, more zooplankton for bugs, you know, and so on. Thank you. More food for ducks. All of that goes goes positive.

What? Unfortunately, what I won't be able to give you an absolute guarantee on is with just aeration, will we be able to 100% solve the algae? An overgrowing weed problem in that pond or how long will it take? I can't give you an absolute answer on that. Depending on the level of impairment and how the pond responds, you know, we could see a a very quick and sustained results, mostly similar to what we've seen at duck pond or Kaplan's could prove to be a little bit harder.

And I will also add that you know. Duck, it is currently harder to maintain duck pond in as good a condition with just the aeration that we're doing in duck pond than it was three, four or five years ago. And that's a product of whatever word you want to use for it, changing, changing patterns of climate. Let's just put it that way.

John, John, I don't mean to interject, but just a quick follow up on that 'cause earlier on you'd also said that aeration Is the logical first step, but so and then you've you've talked a little bit about how aeration might not be, might not solve all the problems.

What are some of the second steps or third steps that that should be considered in a situation like this or either Duck or or or Kaplan's? Yes, so we.

Evaluate all solutions based on their ability to treat the symptom, but also address the root cause of the problem. So. The second primary tool that we utilize is beneficial bacteria treatment or biological augmentation of of a pond to get more of the right microscopic organisms like bacteria working in the pond to clean it of those nutrients that are at the bottom faster.

The third tool that we use, which you, you know, duck pond is Pretty well protected from and I seems like Kaplan's is too is is evaluating any watershed filtration that might need to happen around a pond to clean the water, getting to it from storm events and then and then even with that there you know in any given season you can get. Growth that's out of control.

So once you know if if you can't get the results you want with these more sustainable strategies, then there are times when either mechanical harvesting of growth out of the pond or chemical treatment may be something to consider depending on what your objectives and goals are are for the pond.

It sounds like the concern among the neighborhood. Is noise and I think that is fair. It's not. I mean, if you're saying it's a dishwasher, like that sounds fine, but I think that that's kind of where the concern is.

Is there any, is there an alternative to 24/7? Is it possible to run it for daytime hours or like whatever that would look like?

Or are there alternatives quite? The time when the pond is most stressed for dissolved oxygen is when the sun is not shining, because that's when the oxygen producing organisms in the pond shut down their oxygen production and and actually take up oxygen from the water.

But we have found sound to be a very solvable issue in many, many different environments, including. Lakes that are extremely rural with ambient noise way lower than than suburban areas like Kaplan's Pond. And so we would if what we put in the day we started up is producing more noise than is acceptable, reasonably acceptable for. For residents, meaning we can't make this 100% silent, there is more than can be done quickly and cost effectively to further reduce any sound impact from the unit.

And that includes adding more insulation inside the unit itself, which is possible and practical, and then screening the unit either with vegetation or or. Even some sort or in some cases you know, you know a fence line or you can do a single wall fence in that case. I just don't. I think even out of the gate with no additional measures, I and the model compressor that we're using and the speed at which we're going to be running that, which is not going to be at its full. At its full amp draw that I think that noise as an.

Issue will not will not be one that that people come back to us on. I think I'm I think that will be reassuring to the neighbors to hear that if you know I think people hear the word compressor and they get scared which understandably.

So I think hearing that you know if it does get installed and is. Louder than expected that there are that you would get on it right away and they you know wouldn't be too disturbed for too long. So we are very.

Much in the sound reduction business as much as we are in the aeration business because there's no project that we work on where an industrial compressor running outside someone's house at a level that disturbs their sleep or disturbs their enjoyment of sitting out on their deck on a spring or summer evening is going to work.

Can you tell me when you went to observe the pond? Was it this year? Was it the assessment that you're making about it?

Can you tell me how you came to that? Well, we have not. I mean, we can gather data and Water quality data and sediment data on the pond. We've not done that. I visited the pond at least four times over the last two years or so since we began talking about this.

And you know, I am a businessman, so when I was at take. Can you look at the pond? And we think aeration would be a good idea based on the results at Duck Pond. Can you come look at the pond and give us your professional opinion? And it was very obvious without taking a lot of data in my professional opinion that the lake had and and by poking around even the shoreline that the lake had a large accumulation of organic muck at the bottom. And that there was excess growth of particularly the string algae or filamentous algae just about anytime I visited it.

I believe I visited it in the four times, mostly in the May, June time frame over the past couple of seasons. But you guys kind of asked me, can we, you know, can you quote me a system? So you didn't say, can you do a full workup of the pond and do an analysis? So you know, Full disclosure, you know, I don't have, you know, I don't have several years worth of hard data to say yes, aeration is the right tool for this pond.

But I can tell you that from being in this business for 20 years, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's pretty much a duck. and that pun will benefit from aeration tremendously.

The reason I ask is because over the course of 20 years, I have seen some some years it's wall-to-wall muck on top of it. Some years it's less. The bottom always looks the way it does. It looks like there's organic matter. If it's, I don't know what I'm looking at. Is it dead leaves? Is it seaweed? Is it something else? I have no idea what I'm looking at, but I know that I can see it.

It doesn't from my observations ever look like a pond that does not, is not rife with life. You see fish, you see frogs, you see turtles, you see herons. It's not, it's it's by no means a dead pond. I'm concerned about bloom is that like makes a dog sick if it jumps into the water. So of course like that is concerning to me because people don't swim in it anymore.

It's my understanding that there used to be a sand beach on it. That was before we acquired it. But so people don't swim in it or haven't been swimming in it for a long time. But there are definitely animals that are swimming in it.

So I would be, do we test, do we test the water? Do we know if?

Anything's-- We don't, we don't test the water there.

OK. I mean, I think we probably could. I mean, we take water samples in many different places. When I don't think it would be too difficult to take a sample and send it to the lab.

I do, but I do think that if there were, if that type of algae out bloom, outbreak, whatever you call it, were happening there, I think we would hear people who dogs swim there.

And it probably has happened for short. You've had some, but a harmful level of that, that algae is in them, is in every water body in the world all the time. But when it grows out of control and becomes what's called a harmful algal bloomer. You'll typically see, you know, pea soup, green water and often have a almost a iridescent turquoise or multicolored scum on the surface that has a horrible odor to it.

So what I would say about the pond and your observation is is actually very telling is that. It is kind of a, it is a myth that that every water body is on a path toward dying or becoming a meadow in any kind of a time frame that is relevant to human lifespan. And what more often happens is that ponds reach a steady state or a close to steady state And stay that way for a very long time.

And the question of that steady state then is, is the state that the pond is in and has largely been in for the last five to 10 or even 15 years? Is that acceptable to the community that lives around that pond? If the answer to that is yes, then don't spend any money on it because in a steady state, you're right, it's very unlikely the. the life that is in that pond has acclimatized itself to its current state and is fine, largely fine.

However, if if that doesn't mean that that pond is supporting the amount of life or the kind of the kind of life that it would if it were healthier and it certainly would be aesthetically better if it were healthier. And so that's what the You know that that's what the kind of your decision comes down to is I'm not here to tell you. I mean the the pond will probably continue to gradually get worse.

But I'm not here to tell you that you know next year the pond is going to be a human health hazard when it's when it's not this year and probably hasn't been the past 15 years. It really comes down to. Do you want to invest some some money in making this a healthier ecosystem? If the answer to that is yes, then aeration is absolutely the best dollar, the best money you can spend to move that pond in that direction.

So that's another question that I have. I guess I should have looked at this before. I know that this this project is approved in the 2425 budget, yes. So can you talk a little bit? about how much was earmarked in that budget for this project, and then what the costs were.

I know that some of the installation. And then what the costs to run it going forward would be. Because I've seen some numbers thrown around, but I don't even know exactly where I saw them at this point.

You want to come up, John? Introduce yourself.

John Bouchard, DPW, general foreman. It's for 38 to 4 grand to install it and then the maintenance side including duck pond was I think it was like 9. We budget, we budgeted in.

The last year's budget with $4000 for the equipment and $9175 was the maintenance for both ponds annually, annually, correct. Because it's three times the 4000 is a one time cost rather than the 9175 would be annual.

And what's Duck Pond by just by itself, 2650?

It's three times bigger and there's a slight discount. That figure rolls Duck Pond into it.

The other thing just to note about that figure, the 9000 is that that is the same deal as with Duck Pond where it's bumper to bumper for the as long as you keep doing it. Anything that breaks, you don't pay any additional fees for that's replaced under that contract by us at our expense, correct, including labor.

So we just had, so we just had an issue with Duck Pond. I don't know if anybody noticed the the compressor there went bad and it took, he had to order a new one and it was like 2 weeks and the algae started building up on it again and once we aerated it, it cleared it within a week or so it was clear.

And what about the electricity cost cause that's something that people have brought up the cost of running this compressor. I don't see.

I mean we could, we could look at the duck, the Duck Pond compressor is what else we call it, the shed is, is that on the electric bill down there? Just I can, I think.

It's just the lights and the compressor over there. OK.

Do you have something to say, John?

Well, you know, just so you know, the the unit will use the equivalent. It's actually a little bigger motor than this, but the way we're gonna run it, it will run at the equivalent of about a three horsepower electric motor. I don't know what your rates are, but that's I believe around 4/3 to 4 kilowatts. Of of power draw, you're probably, I mean I guess if your rates are probably in the 1618 cent range, you're probably at $300.00. 2 to $250 to $300 a month would be my guess during operation.

Thank you. John, can you talk about the placement of the like wherever?

So we had to we had to put it close enough to the telephone pole so power could be provided from Con Ed to come down. So power would come down the pole, go on the ground, and come up to their meter, and then provide power to the breaker panel.

That would provide power to his system. And the wires Run a long pond going up another variety.

Those are Verizon wires.

So I mean, I don't know if it's this is the Aapropriate time to say it, but you know, obviously we've received a tremendous amount ever since the ever started noticing people who frequent that, you know, walk there, not only live there but who go there and notice it. We've all received dozens. of emails from concerned neighbors who are, well, the reactions have been opposition to aeration. Partly, I believe because there was so little information about it. I found out about it by seeing a little backhoe there and asking what was happening.

So I know that from my conversations with residents, the desire is to explore what other options there are. I think that it's possible we will come to the conclusion or that this group that is interested in this will come to the conclusion that aeration is the right solution at this time. But I think people want to understand. I'm hopeful that lots of the people that reached out are watching and listening and that we can capture this and make a spot on the projects page for this so people can understand what the proposed project is understand the description that we've gotten from John and John.

And then we can have a follow-up conversation to find out. Obviously this all started because some neighbors said there was a concern. So it didn't, it wasn't, it did come from there. And I think to have all those neighbors, I don't, in the same room who want to be, and to be able to discuss this, and then realize that we made, when we come to some sort of consensus about how to move forward, it is a very important spot to the people it's important to, and I count myself among them.

So, you know, I would really, I appreciate the expertise, you know, that John brings to this. Obviously, we're focused on one little pond in in one place, but I think that being able to have a community conversation about this and decide what's best, I think everybody just does want what's best. for Capitol Pond, I don't know that people who live right there want to have a dishwasher running 24/7 from May to October. That doesn't sound great to me. But, you know, I just walked my dog there. I don't live right there.

So that would be my desire is that how we get the information out there on the projects page and then try to plan a meeting so that we can get a consensus, you know, get some consensus about what people want about this because there are very strong feelings about it.

And I mean, I think it's also just getting factual information out there, right? I mean, we've learned tonight that this will not be loud four times as loud as the one at Duck Pond, right? I mean, that's right.

You know, in a vacuum of information like, you know, the void gets filled.

So and John, what we've been doing here with you tonight is sort of an an informal FAQ. What I think probably the next logical step is, you know, if. with your help is to develop a formal FAQ where we can get all of the questions that typically are asked, and there are a lot of them, and get good, solid answers to them. They may be persuasive to some people, they may not be persuasive to others, but we'll just do our best to get the most scientifically accurate answers to to these frequently asked questions and look to you for help on that.

But I just want to say that I would like to get, I would like to plan an activity to get our neighbors who are interested in this together. I don't want to just produce an FAQ. No, no, they go to guess.

Right. At the end of the day, this came from neighbors commenting on it. So if, you know, giving the solution, we should make sure that those same neighbors are satisfied.

I don't think anyone's disagreeing with the notion of a community conversation. I think the idea is that And if AQ can help set the table for that, a.

Common set of facts. And then just my.

Question for you, John Bouchard, is that were you planning on doing some vegetation screen already to muffle the noise? Yes, I would imagine so.

It was going to be installed. We were going to see the running noise, what it would sound like, and they were going to adjust at that point.

And sorry, just I was able to pull the electric belt for junkpot. Last month, we paid $269.93. Excellent estimate, John. John was right out of the.

Money. This is very helpful. I think that, you know, if people really are concerned, I mean, I don't know if we could do a sort of a test sample of what the sound would be somehow.

At the site, as well as maybe you pointing us to some place nearby, you know, where.

A comparable that would be. Compressor is already running. So can you help?

I'm sorry. There's one in Tarrytown. There's one, where, where?

It's it's it's in a public spot on there.

I believe they call it the lower reservoir. It's right off of Neparin. It's on the hill, it's in a it's in a little shed. It actually similarly would be similarly and there's you know it's it kind of backs into a hit into the hill.

So sound was not a big concern there and it's in a wouldn't just without much insulation.

In it at all. So how would how would you? I didn't mean to interrupt, but are there are there residents within, you know, a stone's throw of the?

Place there or is it? There are houses across back across about a 50 foot parking lot and across the street up the hill which sound traveled up. I at the Kaplan's Pond location, I kind of looked at the closest houses in in all directions and you know.

I mean, again, if it's 2:00 in the morning or 1:30 in the morning and someone's on their deck and they strain their ears, would they be able to hear a sound that sounds like it's coming from the aeration compressor? Possibly. But that's that's about what it would take. Would be no other, you know, the quietest, absolute quietest time of day, no cars going by at all. To be able to hear it, I mean, I don't.

I I just do this by memory, but I don't think the nearest house is less than 100 feet away from that location. If I'm if my my recollection is right. And from from that kind of a distance, I don't think you're going to hear it at all. You're going to hear your neighbor's air conditioner more than you're going to hear that.

OK, well, that's helpful. By coincidence, we were just on a phone call not too long about 4:00 this afternoon. with some of our Tarrytown colleagues. So we'll get in touch with them and maybe take.

A take a ride over there. So can I just ask one more question? What's there now? So a hole was dug and something was with the ground.

The panel to hold the circuit breaker box and the content meter.

There's nothing near other than-- So there are like posts that have been cemented.

And the and the conduit for the wire to come in.

I just wasn't sure what I was looking at when I saw what the the very small structure, but still structure that is there now.

And so that's the part that would be visible, you know, the the electrical materials.

John, is that the meter would be visible from the road, right? The panels for John [the Aerator Provider] and the breaker panel would be pond side.

I think this was super, this was very helpful to understand and figure out how.

So we'll leave this, we'll leave the project pause for now and we will work on scheduling a meeting. I don't know if August is the best time to deal with it.

I think the second week of September, yes. So on that point, what kind of timeline do if we wanted this completed in this year, calendar year, what is the latest we could make that decision?

John, question for John. What's the latest we got?

I would prefer to install before the end of October. OK.

And installation, I've done.

Later, twist my arm.

We can find a nice day in November if needed.

How long is installation? It's not very complicated.

Is that correct? No, one to two days. OK.

So if we have our community conversation sometime after Labor Day, then determination.

And right now everything is paused. So Con Ed is paused, our village.

Electrician is paused and Lake Savers. Well, Speaking of timing, so Con Ed is probably the biggest.

Risk factor for a delay. Is it we can we can we can reach out to the point of contact and see.

OK, we can. I'll make a phone call tomorrow. OK. All right. And. Maybe it's irrelevant and if so, please let me know. But you know the source of the excess nutrients. Do we have any idea about that? It doesn't matter. You know, will the aeration just, you know, because the the pond is continuously getting oxygen, it doesn't really matter if your nutrients are infiltrating or would it still be?

No, it does. OK, it does. That's again the way that in. The reality of it is, which I wish it wasn't quite the reality, is that without oxygen, a water body has zero chance of getting healthier or sustainably changing its nutrient levels. Once you do that, if there are enough inputs from the watershed on a regular enough basis, that you're still, you still have an overabundant supply of nutrient. Coming into the pond, then what the aeration can help process, then you can still have a problem.

However, with Kaplan's and with Duck, what's interesting about both one non aerated, one aerated is with Duck, we've been able to keep that pond in better shape than I would have predicted over the last five years without other tools helping. And with Kaplan's, it doesn't look great, but it hasn't changed. You know, it hasn't shifted like a drastic shift that I can tell in the couple years I've been looking at it, which means it's in that kind of steady state.

So that means it can't, it's unlikely to be getting an inordinate amount of new nutrient in on an annual basis. Because if it was, it would be getting substantially worse every year. You know, it wouldn't just be last year was a good year, this year's a bad year or vice versa. It's my goodness, this pond is nowhere.

Near what it looked like five years ago. One last point and don't even need to give an answer right now, but I know when we do have that conversation with our community, it'll. It'll come up. So just something for you to be aware of and think about.

We've had some, I think in all good faith, you know, some suggestions from and some of the neighbors that there are alternatives that the the effects of aeration can be achieved in different ways. And you know, I won't, I won't try to to repeat, you know, some of the suggestions that they've made because they're a little bit, you know, beyond my own technical capabilities, but I'm sure you've you've gotten. You've looked at this from time to time and so I would I would just ask that you you know think about that and and maybe have have some some appropriate response or or really educate us a little bit on on the the efficacy of some of some of the the suggested alternatives compared to aeration.

Yes, if they if they can put forward those. Either in advance or at the meeting doesn't matter. I don't really need that much advance notice. I probably have heard of any solutions that they're proposing and I'll I'll give them a, you know, I mean if if if there is merit to some of those suggestions, you can count on the fact that I will, I will support that merit.

And be objective about it, not just say, all no, that can't work, only aeration works. I don't, you know, this is not a big project for me and I certainly don't want to put a unit in and around. Out a community of people that are going to look for reasons to make noise about unintended that unit for the next several years, I don't quite need that headache.

So I think taking the time to try to address their concerns and be objective about any other alternatives that might be proposed. If I if I thought there was a better alternative to what we're doing, I'd tell you in this meeting, I don't think there is. But I'm anxious to hear what their ideas are and if they.

Have merit, I will support that. Well, thank you, John.

It sounds like we're going to have, I think, a very constructive conversation.

So appreciate that.

OK. All right. Thank you. Thank you, John. I really appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you.